Sgwrs Defnyddiwr:Jac-y-do/archif0410

Croeso! Marnanel 20:27, 23 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Croeso eto! Deb 12:00, 24 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Diolch am y croeso, Marnanel a Deb! I was a bit afraid that the use of yr iaith fain here would be met with horror, but just having taken a look at your user pages it does seem that folks here are caredig wrth ddysgwyr -- and I am very much a learner.

I'm active on Wikipedia EN and (in a small way) GA, and contribute occasionally to a number of other European-language Wikipedias. I'm particularly interested in "cross-fertilization" between the different versions, as I feel an awful lot of information is already out there and just waiting to be "extracted" from the various different-language versions.

I've got an awful long way to go before I feel confident enough to be contributing actual sentences, let alone, paragraphs in Welsh! However, as multilingual copyediting is part of my employment, I'm interested in doing what I can to tidy up, complete, and perhaps extend some of the tabular and list-type information in the Wicipedia. I've noticed that these are sometimes only partly (or -- excuse a novice for being so bold as to say so -- oddly) translated, or in need of formatting.

I made a start with the table in the Brasil article. I hope I haven't trodden on too many toes. I'd like, once I'm happy that I've found a good, flexible format, to extend it to other countries. Of course, I hope people will be looking out for linguistic howlers on my part -- so that I can learn from the corrections!

One detailed question: I'm not very happy with the heading "TLD Rhyngrwyd" as currently used in the country info tables, but haven't yet thought of anything better. German has "Internet-TLD" (sometimes they just don't really try, those Germans, do they?); the French, who usually take linguistic distinctiveness more seriously, have "Domaine Internet". Termau cyfrifiadurol Cymraeg has enw parth for domain name -- but yr enw parth rhyngrwyd is everything after the www., on'd ydy? Oes awgrymiadau gwell? -- Jac-y-do 19:57, 24 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Croeso from me, too! I'm responsible for multiplying most of the country tables - taking most of it (including the Internet TLD and the Ffonio Côd I saw you changed as well) from earlier tables and leaving things I couldn't decide about (like translations of arwyddair cenedlaethol) in English. But it is good to have them checked! And as far as skimming information from international versions is concerned - I totally agree! That is exactly what I very often do... --okapi 00:08, 25 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Croeso from me three! I'm afraid I was responsible for "TLD Rhyngrwyd" 'cos I couldn't think of a sensible translation for TLD! I've just had a few runs through Kywiro, mentioned in Y Caffi last week, and might suggest something like Parth Safon Uchel Rhyngrwyd. As to Ffonio Côd, wouldn't Côd Ffonio sound better? -- Arwel 01:04, 25 Gor 2004 (UTC)

Shwmai, Okapi, Arwel. (Now you can place me geographically.) Thanks for the suggestions and particularly the link to Kywiro - that's a real find (I particularly like Cookies : Bisgedi).

Had another think about the internet code question, and although I first came up with something similar to your suggestion, Arwel, (except I had "Parth lefel-uchaf rhyngrwyd") - on second thoughts I wondered if that wasn't just getting far too technical (not to say long-winded), it's going down the road of slavishly following the English word-for-word and not trying to think out "what am I trying to say?" from scratch.

(This is a pet peeve of mine: you see it all the time on road signs in Wales. I'd swear that sometimes the Highways Dept just hands out a pocket dictionary and says "Put that lot into Welsh for me, Fred. I'll be back in 10 minutes". There are currently signs in the Merthyr area which say (I kid you not): "Defynyddiwch y allan nesa".)

So what I now propose is Côd ISO gwlad. The two-letter code is, after all, used not just for internet domain names, ISO is an international "abbreviation" (officially, it only stands for itself!) -- and, above all, it's nice and short. Votes for and against?

Regarding "Côd Ffonio", I was basing my suggestion on llyfr ffôn, rhif ffôn, bocs ffôn, cerdyn ffôn, etc., but is this just me being stuffily official when what people actually say is rhif ffonio, bocs ffonio, etc.? A google search turns up, for example, 6 occurrences of "gwasanaeth ffonio" as against 291 for "gwasanaeth ffôn". I have got bilingually educated relatives, but so often if you just ask people straight out "is this right or is that right?" they pause for a moment and then say "well, you could say either". What you need to do is "catch" them using the tartget phrase by talking around it, and my Welsh isn't good enough for that yet. So what do people think?

Mae Jac-y-do yn aderyn swnllyd -- Jac-y-do 10:27, 25 Gor 2004 (UTC)

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As there have been no objections, am going ahead today with Côd ISO gwlad. -- Jac-y-do 14:01, 1 Aws 2004 (UTC)

Bore da! I think I may be a bit late here :-), but I'm not so sure about Côd ISO gwlad: the UK is GB (or GBR), but uses .UK as its TLD (there are also a couple more). What about "enw parth gwreiddyn Rhyngrwyd"? (Okay, maybe not...) — Kate 04:11, 18 Med 2004 (UTC)

Paid poeni -- I haven't exactly been storming ahead since I made my last declaration on the subject :-). However, I would like to stick with Côd ISO gwlad, as being short and to the point - but with a footnote where necessary (and thanks for the link BTW) to point out where the "EPGR" is different. Added to my "to do" list! -- Jac-y-do 12:39, 18 Med 2004 (UTC)

You could also try http://www.bangor.ac.uk/is/termau - which is Bangor's University College site which seems to be the authority on computer terms in Welsh

Dyfrig 17:47, 18 Med 2004 (UTC)

Foreign place names

Hi Jac-y-do! Good to see you back! :-)

Before changing back all the foreign place names, please have a look at the discussion here. The ones used now are from Yr Atlas Cymraeg Newydd which had been pointed out as source before. If you do not agree with the use of those names, it might be a good idea to go on with the discussion on that page before changing everything... Hwyl! :-) --Okapi 13:50, 17 Hyd 2004 (UTC)

See my reply yn y Caffi. -- Jac-y-do 14:46, 17 Hyd 2004 (UTC)