Sgwrs Wicipedia:Y Golygydd Gweladwy

VisualEditor now active here

Click this icon while in VisualEditor for a link to the User Guide.

Hello again (and again, apologies for using English on this page. Please do translate my message, if you can!).

As some of you have noticed, this Wikipedia now has VisualEditor (VisualEditor or "VE") enabled for all users. There are now two tabs for editing: "Golygu" and "Golygu cod". Click "Golygu" to use VisualEditor. Click "Golygu cod" to edit using wikitext markup.

All edits using VisualEditor will be tagged with "Tag:VisualEditor" in recent changes, watchlists, and page histories. To access the User Guide for VisualEditor, click on the "(?)" icon in VisualEditor's toolbar. If you wish to disable VisualEditor, this can be done under "Editing" in your preferences.

Please report any software "bugs" or errors you find at MediaWiki’s VisualEditor Feedback page. Translations for the user interface and its help guide are still needed: you can learn how to support your community with this and other tasks at this instructions page. Please contact me if you need further help though. Happy editing, User:Elitre (WMF) (talk) 15:09, 30 Mawrth 2015 (UTC)

Dwi'n siwr fod llawer o waith wedi mynd i mewn i hyn ond yn fy marn i, Naw wfft iddo! Nid gwelliant yw hyn o gwbl ond "dumbing down" a cham i'r cyfeiriad anghywir sy'n newid naws Wicipedia. Anatiomaros (sgwrs) 23:20, 30 Mawrth 2015 (UTC)

Hey Anatiomaros, thanks for your feedback. I think easier editing in 2015 is the simplest way to reverse the editors'decline the communities have now experienced for years. I'm sure that even cy.wiki might benefit from getting new blood. Regards, --Elitre (WMF) (sgwrs) 23:35, 30 Mawrth 2015 (UTC)

Thank you Elitre (WMF). As I said above, I'm sure a great deal of work has gone into this and it may well encourage new editors to "have a go" - and goodness knows we need that! - but as an "old hand" I think I'll stick with the old way. For a number of reasons, I hope that the traditional wiki editing method will always be an option for editors, even if Visual Editor is the default option, as seems to be the case now. I personally find it much easier, more flexible and quicker that way. Regards, Anatiomaros (sgwrs) 23:53, 30 Mawrth 2015 (UTC)

Absolutely! The wikitext editor is still there, just go with whatever works for you. I've been around for 10 years or something now, and there are some things I still find easier with wikitext (some copy/paste routines which aren't currently supported by VE yet). But then again if I look at things like table editing in VE... there's no turning back, really. Anyway, I would really appreciate if you could help me find users on this wiki which could help with the tasks I listed here for your community's convenience. Thanks, --Elitre (WMF) (sgwrs) 00:06, 31 Mawrth 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, glad to hear the wikitext editor will always(?) be around. I liked this: "Tip: Experienced users may make more mistakes than expected, as they need some time to adapt to the new environment". I'm sure there will be more feedback here over the next few days. As I see it there are pros and cons to VE; making those awkward and annoying tables etc easier to edit is to be welcomed but on the other hand for most edits I think I'll always prefer seeing the full editable text before me; I'd even say that it is an essential part of the wikipedia experience. Anyway, keep an eye on here and maybe there will be a more positive response from others - I'm stuck in my ways, I guess! Ciao, Anatiomaros (sgwrs) 00:38, 31 Mawrth 2015 (UTC)

VisualEditor News #2—2015

Did you know?

With Citoid in VisualEditor, you click the 'book with bookmark' icon and paste in the URL for a reliable source:

Citoid looks up the source for you and returns the citation results. Click the green "Insert" button to accept its results and add them to the article:

After inserting the citation, you can change it. Select the reference, and click the "Edit" button in the context menu to make changes.

The user guide has more information about how to use VisualEditor.

Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has fixed many bugs and worked on VisualEditor's performance, the Citoid reference service, and support for languages with complex input requirements. Status reports are posted on Mediawiki.org. The worklist for April through June is available in Phabricator.

The weekly task triage meetings continue to be open to volunteers, each Wednesday at 11:00 (noon) PDT (18:00 UTC). You do not need to attend the meeting to nominate a bug for consideration as a Q4 blocker. Instead, go to Phabricator and "associate" the Editing team's Q4 blocker project with the bug. Learn how to join the meetings and how to nominate bugs at mw:Talk:VisualEditor/Portal.

Recent improvements

VisualEditor is now substantially faster. In many cases, opening the page in VisualEditor is now faster than opening it in the wikitext editor. The new system has improved the code speed by 37% and network speed by almost 40%.

The Editing team is slowly adding auto-fill features for citations. This is currently available only at the French, Italian, and English Wikipedias. The Citoid service takes a URL or DOI for a reliable source, and returns a pre-filled, pre-formatted bibliographic citation. After creating it, you will be able to change or add information to the citation, in the same way that you edit any other pre-existing citation in VisualEditor. Support for ISBNs, PMIDs, and other identifiers is planned. Later, editors will be able to improve precision and reduce the need for manual corrections by contributing to the Citoid service's definitions for each website.

Citoid requires good TemplateData for your citation templates. If you would like to request this feature for your wiki, please post a request in the Citoid project on Phabricator. Include links to the TemplateData for the most important citation templates on your wiki.

The special character inserter has been improved, based upon feedback from active users. After this, VisualEditor was made available to all users of Wikipedias on the Phase 5 list on 30 March. This affected 53 mid-size and smaller Wikipedias, including Afrikaans, Azerbaijani, Breton, Kyrgyz, Macedonian, Mongolian, Tatar, and Welsh.

Work continues to support languages with complex requirements, such as Korean and Japanese. These languages use input method editors ("IMEs”). Recent improvements to cursoring, backspace, and delete behavior will simplify typing in VisualEditor for these users.

The design for the image selection process is now using a "masonry fit" model. Images in the search results are displayed at the same height but at variable widths, similar to bricks of different sizes in a masonry wall, or the "packed" mode in image galleries. This style helps you find the right image by making it easier to see more details in images.

You can now drag and drop categories to re-arrange their order of appearance ​on the page.

The pop-up window that appears when you click on a reference, image, link, or other element, is called the "context menu". It now displays additional useful information, such as the destination of the link or the image's filename. The team has also added an explicit "Edit" button in the context menu, which helps new editors open the tool to change the item.

Invisible templates are marked by a puzzle piece icon so they can be interacted with. Users also will be able to see and edit HTML anchors now in section headings.

Users of the TemplateData GUI editor can now set a string as an optional text for the 'deprecated' property in addition to boolean value, which lets you tell users of the template what they should do instead. (T90734)

Looking ahead

The special character inserter in VisualEditor will soon use the same special character list as the wikitext editor. Admins at each wiki will also have the option of creating a custom section for frequently used characters at the top of the list. Instructions for customizing the list will be posted at mediawiki.org.

The team is discussing a test of VisualEditor with new users at the English Wikipedia, to see whether they have met their goals of making VisualEditor suitable for those editors. The timing is unknown, but might be relatively soon. (T90666)

Let's work together

• Share your ideas and ask questions at mw:VisualEditor/Feedback.
• Can you translate from English into any other language? Please check this list to see whether more interface translations are needed for your language. Contact us to get an account if you want to help!
• The design research team wants to see how real editors work. Please sign up for their research program.
• File requests for language-appropriate "Trwm" and "Italig" icons for the character formatting menu in Phabricator.

Subscribe, unsubscribe or change the page where this newsletter is delivered at Meta. If you aren't reading this in your favorite language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact us directly, so that we can notify you when the next issue is ready. Thank you!

— Elitre (WMF)

19:48, 10 Ebrill 2015 (UTC)

I hate your new editor, I have clicked on golygu thousands of times in order to edit a page - every time I do so without thinking now I have to waste time waiting for it to load so that I can switch it off! Writing an article takes little time - I can write a biography of an MP in about an hour, what takes time is putting the code in to the biography to make it Wicipidia ready, but rather than help with that the visual editor hinders it. It adds bloated code (such as span CY) it preserves Word line brakes etc, all of which have to be removed in the code edit view and it doesn't help with the really time consuming tasks like creating succession boxes, election boxes etc

Mae'n methiant llwyr, gwell gennyf byddid cael ei wared o'r safle AlwynapHuw (sgwrs) 04:26, 15 Ebrill 2015 (UTC)

Hi AlwynapHuw. Thanks for taking the time to leave feedback. If you wish to disable VisualEditor, this can be done under "Editing" in your preferences. If you don't disable it, keep in mind you can make changes in VisualEditor and immediately switch to Golygu cod... just clicking on its tab - you can maintain the changes and you'll be able to perform more advanced editing then. If span tags are added, that's a bug or a regression of a bug - I'll take a look at recent changes to see if I find instances of them to report to developers. The reason why you don't find template editing easier yet is that templates at cywiki may still lack TemplateData, which is the information VE needs in order to read them correctly. See how they look like for the succession box template at enwiki. I'd appreciate if you could test at that wiki the templates you use more frequently (please feel free to use my sandbox there if you want) and tell me how that goes. I'm also interested in getting specific feedback that I can report to developers to make VisualEditor a better tool for this wiki as well. Best, --Elitre (WMF) (sgwrs) 14:20, 15 Ebrill 2015 (UTC)

I have found some edits where nowiki tags where added. This happened because the editor tried to copy/paste wikicode inside VisualEditor, which is not how VE is supposed to work. Therefore this is not a bug, editors just need to use VE's tools to make, for example, a citation, or text in italics. --Elitre (WMF) (sgwrs) 12:59, 16 Ebrill 2015 (UTC) PS: span bug reported.

Wow! Plis, na! Mae'n drwsgwl ac yn erchyll i'w ddefnyddio. Mae'n sicr yn mynd i'n stopio fi rhag golygu/ychwanegu erthyglau Blogdroed (sgwrs) 14:56, 18 Ebrill 2015 (UTC)

Blogdroed, I'd appreciate if you or anybody else could translate the following sentence in Welsh: If you wish to disable VisualEditor, this can be done under "Editing" in your preferences. For clarity, nobody here or elsewhere must use VE if they don't want to, so I'm providing the instructions to allow you to hide it. Thank you. --Elitre (WMF) (sgwrs) 12:36, 19 Ebrill 2015 (UTC)

Pinging User:Llywelyn2000 who provided quite different feedback in the past :) --Elitre (WMF) (sgwrs) 12:41, 19 Ebrill 2015 (UTC)

VisualEditor News #3—2015

Did you know?

When you click on a link to an article, you now see more information:

The link tool has been re-designed:

There are separate tabs for linking to internal and external pages. The user guide has more information about how to use VisualEditor.

Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has created new interfaces for the link and citation tools and fixed many bugs and changed some elements of the design. Some of these bugs affected users of VisualEditor on mobile devices. Status reports are posted on mediawiki.org. The worklist for April through June is available in Phabricator.

A test of VisualEditor's effect on new editors at the English Wikipedia has just completed the first phase. During this test, half of newly registered editors had VisualEditor automatically enabled, and half did not. The main goal of the study is to learn which group was more likely to save an edit and to make productive, unreverted edits. Initial results will be posted at Meta later this month.

Recent improvements

Auto-fill features for citations are available at a few Wikipedias through the citoid service. Citoid takes a URL or DOI for a reliable source, and returns a pre-filled, pre-formatted bibliographic citation. If Citoid is enabled on your wiki, then the design of the citation workflow changed during May. All citations are now created inside a single tool. Inside that tool, choose the tab you want (⧼citoid-citeFromIDDialog-mode-auto⧽, ⧼citoid-citeFromIDDialog-mode-manual⧽, or ⧼citoid-citeFromIDDialog-mode-reuse⧽). The cite button is now labeled with the word "⧼visualeditor-toolbar-cite-label⧽" rather than a book icon, and the autofill citation dialog now has a more meaningful label, "⧼Citoid-citeFromIDDialog-lookup-button⧽", for the submit button.

The link tool has been redesigned based on feedback from Wikipedia editors and user testing. It now has two separate sections: one for links to articles and one for external links. When you select a link, its pop-up context menu shows the name of the linked page, a thumbnail image from the linked page, Wikidata's description, and appropriate icons for disambiguation pages, redirect pages and empty pages (where applicable). Search results have been reduced to the first five pages. Several bugs were fixed, including a dark highlight that appeared over the first match in the link inspector. (T98085)

The special character inserter in VisualEditor now uses the same special character list as the wikitext editor. Admins at each wiki can also create a custom section for frequently used characters at the top of the list. Please read the instructions for customizing the list at mediawiki.org. Also, there is now a tooltip to describing each character in the special character inserter. (T70425)

Several improvements have been made to templates. When you search for a template to insert, the list of results now contains descriptions of the templates. The parameter list inside the template dialog now remains open after inserting a parameter from the list, so that users don’t need to click on "⧼visualeditor-dialog-transclusion-add-param⧽" each time they want to add another parameter. (T95696) The team added a new property for TemplateData, "Enghraifft", for template parameters. This optional, translatable property will show up when there is text describing how to use that parameter. (T53049)

The design of the main toolbar and several other elements have changed slightly, to be consistent with the MediaWiki theme. In the Vector skin, individual items in the menu are separated visually by pale gray bars. Buttons and menus on the toolbar can now contain both an icon and a text label, rather than just one or the other. This new design feature is being used for the cite button on wikis where the Citoid service is enabled.

The team has released a long-desired improvement to the handling of non-existent images. If a non-existent image is linked in an article, then it is now visible in VisualEditor and can be selected, edited, replaced, or removed.

Let's work together

• Share your ideas and ask questions at mw:VisualEditor/Feedback.
• The weekly task triage meetings continue to be open to volunteers, usually on Wednesday at 12:00 (noon) PDT (19:00 UTC). Learn how to join the meetings and how to nominate bugs at mw:VisualEditor/Weekly triage meetings. You do not need to attend the meeting to nominate a bug for consideration as a Q4 blocker, though. Instead, go to Phabricator and "associate" the VisualEditor Q4 blocker project with the bug.
• If your Wikivoyage, Wikibooks, Wikiversity, or other community wants to have VisualEditor made available by default to contributors, then please contact James Forrester.
• If you would like to request the Citoid automatic reference feature for your wiki, please post a request in the Citoid project on Phabricator. Include links to the TemplateData for the most important citation templates on your wiki.
• The team is planning the second VisualEditor-related "translathon" for July. Please follow this task on Phabricator for details and updates! Announcements will follow in due course.

Subscribe, unsubscribe or change the page where this newsletter is delivered at Meta. If you aren't reading this in your favorite language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact us directly, so that we can notify you when the next issue is ready. Thank you!

— Elitre (WMF)

12:42, 13 Mehefin 2015 (UTC)

Please join the 2nd edition of the VisualEditor Translathon

Hello!

I'm pleased to announce the 2nd edition of the VisualEditor Translathon.

It is a translation rally, focused on interface messages and help pages related to VisualEditor. In order to participate, you need to sign up on the Translathon page on TranslateWiki.

The top 3 contributors will each win a Wikipedia t-shirt of their choice from the Wikipedia store. Translations made between July 15th and July 19th (CDT time zone) qualify.

If you are at Wikimania Mexico this year, you are also welcome to join a related sprint during the hackathon in Workplace 1 - Don Américo, Thursday 16 July at 4pm (CDT) at the conference venue, so you can meet other fellow translators and get support if you need some.

Interface messages have the priority. You will need to create an account at translatewiki.net in order to work on them, if you don't have one. It is recommended to create the account ASAP, so that it can be confirmed in time.

You can also help translate documentation pages about VisualEditor on mediawiki.org. You can use your Wikipedia account to work there.

You will find instructions, links and other details on the Translathon page.

Thanks for your attention, and happy translating!
Elitre (WMF) 20:56, 13 Gorffennaf 2015 (UTC)

Sylw bach

Yr unig dro y byddaf yn ei ddefnyddio ydy i newid data o fewn tablau. Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 06:55, 10 Awst 2015 (UTC)

Dwi'n delio gyda cod (fwy cymleth na Wici) bob dydd ac yn y gorffennol dwi wedi defnyddio y golygydd testun plaen a ceisio defnyddio y tagiau cywir ac ati, am ddim llawer o fudd fel arfer. Ond os oes yna ffordd haws o gyflawni pethau yn gyflymach yn y gwaith neu fel gwirfoddolwr fan hyn mi wnai gymryd e. Os ydw i yn treulio hanner awr yn gwneud ymchwil dwi ddim eisiau treulio hanner awr arall yn fformatio hynny yn gywir a chofnodi cyfeiriadau a chreu dolenni ac ati. Yn amlwg mae na nifer o bethau sy'n amhosib neu anodd ei wneud gyda'r golygydd gweledol, ond o ran ehangu cynnwys y Wici yn gyflym mae'n ddefnyddiol tu hwnt. Dafyddt (sgwrs)

Mae'r ymdrech werth ei ganmol, ti'n iawn, ond mae ganddyn nhw gythgam o ffordd i fynd i symlhau'r holl beth os mai dyna ei nod! Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 12:48, 10 Awst 2015 (UTC)