Wicipedia:Y Caffi/archif/4


I've just had a chat with Bibl about info-boxes. We came to the conclusion that it would be a good idea to store a standard form of each (by now we have boxes for languages, countries and taxonomy) somewhere for easy reference, e.g. as a on Wicipedia:Arddull. What do you think about that? --okapi 00:13, 3 Aws 2004 (UTC)

en: calls these "wikiprojects", iirc: I think we have an unused link to something similar off Hafan: Wicipedia:WiciProsiectau Marnanel 18:42, 9 Aws 2004 (UTC)


Sut ydy hi'n posibl rhoi lluniau ar y tudalenau? Dydw i ddim yn deall. Diolch am eich atebion (os rydych chi'n well na fi)



Rhaid i chi grewch gyfrif newydd (yma) i uwchlwytho lluniau. Marnanel 23:06, 5 Aws 2004 (UTC)

Odd pageGolygu

Would somebody please have a look at Côr meibion? It doesn't really look like something for an encyclopedia to me, at least not the way it is now... Likewise: Bandiau and Defnyddio. And Termau cyfrifiadurol Cymraeg looks like something for the Wictionary...

--Okapi 11:19, 28 Aws 2004 (UTC)

BTW, I just noticed that Dyfrig opted for deleting Côr meibion, Bandiau and Defnyddio on the respective sgwrs-pages. --Okapi 23:44, 31 Aws 2004 (UTC)


I have added Eisteddfodau to Celf a Diwylliant on Hafan, because I think it is the cultural venue in Wales. I hope you agree, if not - well, we can always move it somewhere else, can't we? Pleidleisiau? --Okapi 10:31, 29 Aws 2004 (UTC)

I'm just an observer from ga.wikipedia.org, but it would seem to me that Eisteddfodau is too narrow a subject to be on the front page. There's a Wikipedia policy that the Wikipedia is linked to the language, not the country. -- Gabriel Beecham
No expert on wikipedia but feel there is something wrong on front page. For instance we have lists of muaicians etc in other categories, but there are also lists of musicians etc under art and culture - music?? Dyfrig
Sorry, I only just discovered your posting... What we need much more urgently than lists for the Hafan are articles! It would be nice to link the lists that already exist to them, though... --Okapi 15:38, 29 Hyd 2004 (UTC)
I agree articles are much more important. I was underimpressio0n most are linked. Am I wrong? Suppose I asked question to put my own mind at rest abvout lists - found it strange lists were in different palces Dyfrig 18:18, 29 Hyd 2004 (UTC)
Wela i. I don't think there are any orphaned lists at the moment (you were talking about the lists when asking whethere they were linked, weren't you?).--Okapi 01:38, 30 Hyd 2004 (UTC)


Annwyl pawb: Paul has translated our introduction to Welsh on Hafan to Italian for us (please also have a look at the discussion on Sgwrs Defnyddiwr:Paul-L). We agreed that it might be a good idea to add further languages on a separate page linked to Hafan, which I started today, calling it Wicipedia:Cymraeg. Opinions? Objections? Or any better ideas? --Okapi 06:11, 1 Med 2004 (UTC)

Seems like a reasonable idea. I was amazed when Japanese and Romanian turned up! -- Arwel 13:32, 6 Med 2004 (UTC)
Helo bawb, dwi nôl o'r diwedd. Ydy hi'n syniad symud y dudalen Temporary:Cymraeg i Wicipedia:Cymraeg? Dwi'n ofn gwneud hynny fy hunan -- efallai bod rheswm dros gael dwy dudalen gwahanol. Gareth 22:17, 23 Med 2004 (UTC)

Mozart PictureGolygu

Mozart from the public domain

Marcus2 still keeps reverting the picture in the Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart article (see also Sgwrs:Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart). However, having looked into the Copyright situation I found that Copyright is dubious with either, e.g. the French have got copyright warnings on both. I found this public domain picture in the German wiki, which isn't colour either, but at least officially public domain. Should we use the pd one in the article instead of the other pictures? --Okapi 00:39, 2 Med 2004 (UTC)


Hello! I am about to make a change to the database setup on cy.wikipedia (it should happen some time today), to fix the project namespace and "Wicipedia:" pages (all the Wicipedia: pages are actually in the article namespace, because the Wikipedia namespace was never renamed to Wicipedia). At some point these pages may briefly disappear - please don't panic if this happens, they haven't been deleted, it just means that the fix is in the process of being done. Hopefully this won't take more than a few minutes. Thanks —Kate 12:08, 6 Med 2004 (UTC)

This is now finished. The most obvious change is that [[Sgwrs:Wicipedia:Pagename]] has now become Sgwrs Wicipedia:Pagename - links to these articles will have to be updated manually. Please let me know on my en: talk page if there are any problems, such as missing articles or articles without edit histories. Regards — Kate 15:56, 6 Med 2004 (UTC)

The Diwedd-bug again...Golygu

I've just noticed that Jac-y-Do has started to correct the abovementioned bug on the date-pages, as it results in the calender-box vanishing. It is quite a job to do that manually - would there be any way to do it botically? (See for example 22 Mehefin for corrected and 4 Mehefin for uncorrected versions)--Okapi 05:31, 12 Med 2004 (UTC)

Ah, that's what was happening! I was wondering why he was going through all the dates... I think the "Diwedd" is fixed text in all the dates, included in a comment line, so it might be possible to set a bot looking for it, but I'm no expert on this. -- Arwel 13:21, 12 Med 2004 (UTC)
Hmm, and that appearently isn't even all... Dyfrig also has changed the wording in 31 Rhagfyr - should we spread the corrections all over the year? (Just thinking of the toil that would mean makes me shiver... Ehm... Dwylobot, Help!?). --Okapi 15:01, 12 Med 2004 (UTC)

Yet another odd page...Golygu

There is a new page Yma o Hyd by an unregistered user - would somebody please have a look at it? Apart from the user signing several times it only has an MP3-link that doesn't even work. Uhm... as it is now: delete?

Yup. I've just chopped it. --Arwel 16:05, 13 Med 2004 (UTC)

BTW, do we have a page where we collect dubious pages - if I remember correctly we have one copyright infringement and 3 or 4 other dubious pages at the moment, it would be easier to follow them up it they all were on one list... And how long do we wait before deleting? 2 weeks? --Okapi 03:28, 13 Med 2004 (UTC)

We've never really needed one before. How about Wicipedia:Tudalennau amheus? Where a page has been created by an unregistered user I've got no problem with deleting it straight away; I'd suggest a fortnight for deleting pages created by registered users, but we'll need a template to stick on the affected pages as warning that it'll likely be deleted. -- Arwel 16:05, 13 Med 2004 (UTC)
Looks good! Diolch! --Okapi 22:51, 13 Med 2004 (UTC)

Ffynnonellau llyfrau allanolGolygu

There is a tudalen arbennig mit Ffynnonellau llyfrau allanol - but we only have English Language bookshops on them. Should Argoed and Gwales also be there? (they are on Siopau Cymraeg Arlein). If they should, would somebody who knows more about editing those pages than I do please add them? --Okapi 00:34, 15 Med 2004 (UTC)

I think the bookshops are in an array on meta:LanguageCy.php, $wgBookstorelistCy. I tried to see if it's possible to override the array by using a Nodyn: but it didn't work. I'm not quite sure if it's possible to invoke argoed and gwales directly with an ISBN (not and retain the language choice anyway) - argoed.com's call would be something like www.argoed.com/wProductDetail.asp?ISBN=$1 while gwales is www.gwales.com/bibliographic/?isbn=$1 (where $1 is the ISBN with no spaces or dashes). I shall ask around to see if there's a better way of changing the array. By the way I edited Siopau Cymraeg Arlein because it looked like the links to Amazon and Gwales had somebody's cookie (yours?) included in the URL - when I first linked to Gwales it said my basket had been timed out! -- Arwel 14:37, 15 Med 2004 (UTC)
Errr.... thanks! I am afraid this is a bit above my head (quite considerably above my head?), but thanks for looking into it. It would be nice to have Welsh shops in the list (and probably more useful than some of those listed which don't even produce hits for Welsh books), so I'm looking forward to the results of your quest! Thanks also for removing the cookies - I don't know whether they were mine, I don't even have accounts there, but I like to keep my cookies to myself! ;-) The Cookie-Monster (--Okapi 15:16, 15 Med 2004 (UTC))
I think I have made my views known elsewhere. I dont know what happens on other Wikipedias but I am of the firm belief that we should avoid commercial sites like the plague. From what I understand that is not the purpose of Wicipedia.
Further down the line we will regret this in my opinion
Dyfrig 17:53, 15 Med 2004 (UTC)
OK, it's done. The list of bookshops is now editable at Wicipedia:Ffynnonellau llyfrau allanol. I'm not particularly concerned about linking to commercial sites, particularly if they're well-known -- my reservation is that there's enough choice so we're not seen as endorsing a particular company (English Wikipedia seems to have dozens of bookshops in their list, but they're mostly in the US, so I didn't see any point in porting them over here). Anyway, we don't have many articles which link to ISBNs, do we? I can only think of Malcolm Pryce... -- Arwel 19:52, 15 Med 2004 (UTC)
Oh, it works! Looks good, really! Thanks :-)
About commercial sites: I really think it depends on what they are. I wouldn't be happy about dialler sites or anything like that, but I think books really should be all right, especially as Arwel said if there is a big choice of sites. I think that other Wikipedias also use them to ground their articles as internet research isn't always that reliable, especially the volatile ones about subjects like discrimination, war crimes and the like, to give the reader a further source of information. We don't have any volatile articles yet, but what I've seen from them and the often war-like discussions about them I suppose that book-references really help to make the Wikipedia credible. I've used book links in other languages before to check what other people wrote about a book mentioned as a reference, just to see where the article stands - and after all you always can go and look for it in a library. I think it really works in the same way as with a scientific treatise. But let's keep an eye on them, by all means! (BTW, Barnes & Noble is one of the sites that don't work with Welsh-language books...).--Okapi 23:25, 15 Med 2004 (UTC)
I have given this a little more consideration. I think the text Arwel wrote about us not being connected with any online shops is clear enaugh, but to make the point even more obvious I have also added some library links. If you like I will move the remaining sites (publishers) from Siopau Cymraeg Arlein over to the Fynhonellau allanol and delete y dudalen Siopau arlein, then we only have one nice and compact page with all the information on it. All right? --Okapi 05:25, 16 Med 2004 (UTC)


Sgwrs wedi symud i Wicipedia:Sgwrs am Gwledydd y Byd.

Boxes overlappingGolygu

I don't know whether it is only my computer, but the box showing the picture and the one showing the previous and following king seem to overlap on Rhisiart III o Loegr. Any idea why or how it can be helped? --Okapi 05:12, 9 Hyd 2004 (UTC)

Interesting. I've taken a look at that page in Netscape 7, Opera 7.54, Mozilla 1.7.3, Firefox 1.0, and MS Internet Explorer 6.0, and it's only Internet Exploder that shows the overlapping boxes problem! I can't think why this should be (other than it being a Microsoft product....). The only thing I can suggest is that you move to a better browser :) -- Arwel 00:16, 10 Hyd 2004 (UTC)
I put the box on the page, and the only thing to do is to put more information about Rhisiart, so put the previous/following monarchs box goes further down the page. (Paul 07:50, 10 Hyd 2004 (UTC))

Picture CopyrightGolygu

In the articles Porthmadog and Anweledig there are pictures which have not been uploaded but placed there by internet link, sef something like http://www.name.of.the.picture.gif. Is it all right to do so??? Even though you can see where it is from if you go to golygwch, there is no other source mentioned. BTW, Both the Porthmadog and the Anwledig sites mention copyrights.

Does anybody know more about this kind of legal stuff? --Okapi 02:54, 28 Hyd 2004 (UTC)

The Porthmadog one makes me suck my teeth! I think it's legally rather dubious, as sites often object to other sites linking other than through the main portal, especially in cases like this where we're using their picture without giving them any benefit at all. I'm reminded of the early-Internet case of the Shetland News v Shetland Times where one of the newspapers was linking to the others' news stories -- that one ended up in the High Court in Edinburgh and set various precedents on deep-linking. I would tend to strongly disapprove of the practice. The Anweledig article as it currently stands looks OK. -- Arwel 01:58, 1 Tach 2004 (UTC)
I thought so, too... I'll get rid of the pic. BTW, the Anwledig picture has been changed since I posted the above. --Okapi 02:00, 1 Tach 2004 (UTC)


I'n not really sure whether Eryri and Parc Cenedlaethol Eryri should be one article or not. At first they were, then I divided them. Ehm, did that make sense at all? If not, I'll reunite them... And if they are to be reunited, under which name? Pleidleisiau? --Okapi 03:06, 1 Tach 2004 (UTC)

Having thought about this for a couple of days - I'll reunite them on Eryri... --Okapi 08:04, 5 Tach 2004 (UTC)

Cyfeirio at gofnod arallGolygu

Hylo, dwi'n newydd braidd yma. Sut mae rhywun yn rhoi cyferiad o un gofnod i'r llall.

Dwi wedi creu cofnod newydd am 'blog' er fod un yn bodoli yn barod am 'gweflog' sydd yn air sydd ddim rili yn cael ei ddefnyddio rhagor. Ydi hi'n bosib symud pobol i gofnod arall pan mae'n nhw'n mynd at gweflog? Ydw i jest yn dileu cynnwys cofnod gweflog gan ddweud nad ydi'r gair mewn defnydd rhagor a rhoi dolen i gofnod 'Blog'? Dwn im, cyngor unrhywun?

Hylo Rhodri ap Dyfrig! Diolch am y neges. Mae'n ddigon hawdd newid rhywbeth fel hyn, Os wedi mewngofnodi gelli di clicio'r Symydwch y dudalen hon sydd ar chwith. Bydd dalen yn arddangos gan bwlch arni i sgrifennu'r enw newydd yr erthygl. Beth bynnag, gan blog yn bodoli yn barod bydd rhaid ei ddielu hi cyn i symud gweflog. Gallwn i gwneud hynny, os ti'n licio (mae'r un cynnwys ar y dudalen, tydi?). Mae'n well symud y tudalen na chopio hi a dileu'r hen dudalen am fod hanes y dudalen yn dal i fodoli trwy'r symud.
Gyda llaw, mae pobl fel arfer yn ailadrodd teitl y dudalen yn y brawddeg cyntaf a'i ysgrifennu yn destyn crif trwy rhoi ''' ''' o gwmpas y gair neu denfyddio'r botym chwith uwchben y bocs golygu. Er enghraifft gellir sgrifennu "Aderyn yw Eryr." pan fod "Eryr" yn teitl y dudalen. Hefyd, mae'n bosib creu cyswllt i erthyglau eraill trwy rhoi gair rhwng blychiau fel hyn: [[ ]] a gellir arwyddo ar sgwrs (ond nid ar erthygl) trwy clicio'r ail botym o'r de uwchben y bocs golygu.
Gobethio fod hynny'n gwneud pethau'n dipyn mwy clir i ti, ond os yw cwestiynnai eraill gennyt ti gelli ti ofyn pryd bynnag. :-) Mwynheua'r wefan! --Okapi 08:01, 5 Tach 2004 (UTC)
Dw i wedi symud y dudalen cyn i bobl golygu hi. Ydi hi'n iawn fel hyn? --Okapi 15:22, 12 Tach 2004 (UTC)

DATGANIAD: Translation of the weekGolygu

Hylo pawb! I received the following message from en:user:Waerth on my talk-page. Anybody interested please drop in on meta - we still lack a lot of the more basic stuff, but it might be a nice project to get involved in! :-) --Okapi 15:56, 6 Tach 2004 (UTC)

Currently we have started a project on meta.wikipedia to get an article translated in as many wikipedias as possible every week. The article will be about a subject that usually gets rarely translated and has a lot of links to other subjects. Currently we have no-one to translate in your language. If someone is interested to participate please see: meta:Translation of the week You can also submit articles from your own languages there that you think deserve translation, but have a small chance of it. The articles must not be to short and not to long and have lots of links to possible other articles! en:user:Waerth

How about a face-lift for Hafan?Golygu

Hylo pawb! I've been wondering if there wasn't a way to make our Hafan more attractive. I think it is important to have an upper third of the page that looks good and gives people an idea what this whole project is about without scrolling very much, just to raise their curiosity. What do you think?

I had a very little go at it today by reformatting the three lines on the top claiming to offer new features (Y Caffi, Wicisource and Mediawiki) which are not very new any longer. I have also made the bit about "Yn y newyddion" invisible (I did not delete it, it still is in the source text) because it claimes we can't start on it anyways before we are much larger, and yet it is among the first things people see when looking at our Homepage.

I was also wondering if it would be a good idea to move the three lines about y Caffi, Wikisource, the Wictionary and the software further down, for example the bottom of the cymuned-block. That would make our Erthyglau dewis move up and therefore right onto the screen to be the first thing people see when opening Hafan.

And how about changing the layout of the first few lines ("WICIPEDIA - cy.wikipedia.org" until "Diolch am eich hamser a mwynhewch y wefan!") to make them look more compact? Maybe anything like this?


--Okapi 08:28, 8 Tach 2004 (UTC)

safoni iaithGolygu

helo, dwi'n eitha newydd yma! does gen i ddim llawer o syniade gwych a gwallgo am gyfraniadau i wicipedia (heblaw fy anhygoel Bwrdd yr Iaith Gymraeg!), ond mae arna i ofn fy mod yn dipyn o gramadeg geek, ac wrth edrych drwy rai o'r erthyglau diddorol sydd yma dwi'n sylwi o dro i dro ar ambell wall sillafu neu damaid o chamthreiglad.

fy nghwestiwn i felly yw hyn: ydy hi'n iawn "cywiro" iaith pobl? Dwi'n siwr bod hyn yn digwydd yn y wicipedia Saesneg, ond y broblem efo'r Gymraeg ydy bod pobl yn gallu bod yn llawer mwy sensitif am y peth, a hefyd gan fod y gymuned gymaint yn llai fe allai achosi trwbl - ydw i'n iawn? dwi ddim am wneud i neb deimlo nad yw eu Cymraeg nhw'n ddigon da... neu ydy pobl yn cywiro iaith ei gilydd yma eisoes, pawb yn hapus a.y.b.? -- Osian 11:24, 14 Tach 2004 (UTC)

Cywiro, diolch! Deb 16:04, 14 Tach 2004 (UTC)

Diolch i ti am fod mor sensitif. Dw i wedi bod yn cywiro yn eitha llym. Rwyn credu y gall y diffyg cywirdeb olygu y bydd y wicipedia Cymraeg ddim yn cael ei weld fel safle we safonol gan athrawon ac ati. A siarad yn bersonol po fwy o gywiro gorau gyd. Dyfrig
Diolch am y neges, Osian! Byddwn i'n hapus iawn am gael fyn Nghymraeg cywriro, dw i'n gwybod mae llawer o wallgofau yno, ond dw i eisiau wella! --Okapi 12:45, 29 Tach 2004 (UTC)

trosglwyddo tablau/lluniau i wicipediaGolygu

Helo, dwi wedi gwneud rhyw fath o gyfieithiad o Manatee, sef Morfuwch, er mwyn cael y Gymraeg yn un o ieithoedd y prosiect meta:Translation of the week. Dwi'n newydd yma, a dwi fawr o "techie" a bod yn onest, felly dwi wedi methu cael y llun a'r tabl sydd yn yr un Saesneg i'r fersiwn Gymraeg. Oes rhywun yma allai wneud hyn, neu hyd yn oed esbonio i fi sut i wneud? Diolch yn fawr -- Osian 22:38, 14 Tach 2004 (UTC)

"The Tree of Life" taxoboxesGolygu

I'll answer this in English, otherwise someone will have to translate a lot of very circumlocutious Welsh!

Osian's problem with the Morfuwch taxobox arose because the English Wikipedia has developed a "Tree of Life" WikiProject which allows for the creation of wonderful taxoboxes for details of all sorts of living species. Hitherto we haven't needed the facility on cy Wicipedia, but now the problem has arisen I've set up the basic system. The system uses a series of Templates, some of which have parameters. Where appropriate I've translated the parameter names into Welsh, but unfortunately you'll still have to supply colour names in English! For full details of how the taxoboxes work in English Wikipedia, see here. The template names are the same here as on the English Wikipedia.

Example. For Morfuwch, the taxobox is:

{{Taxobox_begin | lliw=pink | enw=Morfuwch}}<br />{{StatusEndangered}}
{{Taxobox_image | delwedd = [[Delwedd:Manatee_with_calf.PD.jpg|250px|Morfuwch gyda llô.]] | pennawd = Morfuwch gyda llô.}}
{{Taxobox_begin_placement | lliw = pink}}
{{Taxobox_regnum_entry | taxon = [[Animal]]ia}}
{{Taxobox_phylum_entry | taxon = [[Chordata]]}}
{{Taxobox_classis_entry | taxon = [[Mammal]]ia}}
{{Taxobox_ordo_entry | taxon = [[Sirenia]]}}
{{Taxobox_familia_entry | taxon = '''Trichechidae'''}}
{{Taxobox_genus_entry | taxon = '''''Trichechus'''''}}
{{Taxobox_section_subdivision | lliw = pink | plural_taxon = Rhywogaeth}}
''Trichechus inunguis''<br />
''Trichechus manatus''<br />
''Trichechus senegalensis''

The standard colour for animal species is pink - see the Taxobox usage guide for colours to use for other kingdoms. I must admit that the MediaWiki software is so sophisticated that the regnum/phylum/classis/ordo names were translated into Welsh automatically when I copied the strings over from English Wikipedia, and I have no idea how that happened!

The same variety of "Conservation status" templates is available as in :en:

  • {{StatusSecure}}
  • {{StatusConcern}}
  • {{StatusLeastConcern}}
  • {{StatusNearConcern}}
  • {{StatusConserveConcern}}
  • {{StatusVulnerable}}
  • {{StatusEndangered}}
  • {{StatusCritical}}
  • {{StatusExtinctW}}
  • {{StatusExtinct|dyddiad=[[date]]}}
  • {{StatusFossil}}
  • {{StatusPrehistoric}}
  • {{StatusData}}
  • {{StatusUnknown}}
  • {{StatusSeeText}}

I'll add other templates as time allows, or of course other admins are welcome to do so. -- Arwel 21:22, 18 Tach 2004 (UTC)

Just a little remark about taxoboxes: I've done quite a number of them so far, using the tables that had been used so far. Up to now we only use pink for taxoboxes in the Welsh Wikipedia, mostly in order not to make things too complicated... --Okapi 12:48, 29 Tach 2004 (UTC)