Torvalu4

Shwmae, Torvalu4! Croeso mawr i Wicipedia — y gwyddoniadur rhydd.			Welcome message in English
Diolch am ymuno â Wicipedia ac am eich cyfraniadau diweddaraf — fe obeithiwn y byddwch yn mwynhau cyfrannu yma.
Prosiect amlieithog i greu gwyddoniadur rhydd yw Wicipedia. Fe sefydlwyd y fersiwn gwreiddiol yn Saesneg yn 2001, a'r fersiwn Cymraeg yn 2003, a bellach mae 281,362 erthygl gennym. Rhowch gynnig ar y dolenni defnyddiol isod, a dysgu sut gallwch chi olygu unrhyw erthygl o ganlyniad. A chofiwch — dyfal donc a dyr y garreg.
	Y Caffi Tudalen i ofyn cwestiynau ynglŷn â Wicipedia.		Cymorth Cymorth ynglŷn â defnyddio Wicipedia.
	Porth y Gymuned Gwelwch beth sy'n mynd ymlaen a beth sydd angen gwneud yma.		Golygu ac Arddull Sut i olygu erthygl ac arddull erthyglau.
	Hawlfraint Y rheolau hawlfraint yma.		Cymorth iaith Cymorth gyda'r iaith Gymraeg.
	Polisïau a Chanllawiau Rheolau a safonau a dderbynnir gan y gymuned.		Cwestiynau Cyffredin Y cwestiynau cyffredin a ofynnir gan ddefnyddwyr.
	Tiwtorial a'r Ddesg Gyfeirio Dysgu sut i olygu cam wrth gam gyda'r Tiwtorial, a chyflwynwch eich cwestiynau wrth y Ddesg Gyfeirio.		Y Pum Colofn Egwyddorion sylfaenol y prosiect.
Dyma eich tudalen sgwrs lle gallwch dderbyn negeseuon gan Wicipedwyr eraill. I adael neges i Wicipedwr arall, dylech ysgrifennu ar dudalen sgwrs y defnyddiwr gan glicio ar y cysylltiad iddi, ac wedyn clicio ar y tab "sgwrs". Ar ddiwedd y neges mewn tudalennau sgwrs (fel yr un yma), gadewch ~~~~, a bydd y cod yma yn gadael stamp eich enw ac amser gadael y neges. Os ydych am gael cymorth gan weinyddwyr, rhowch y nodyn {{Atsylwgweinyddwr}} ar eich tudalen sgwrs. Fe obeithiwn y byddwch yn mwynhau cyfrannu yma, Y Wicipedia Cymraeg

Cofion cynnes, Deb (sgwrs) 09:26, 2 Ionawr 2021 (UTC)

Dy olygiadau ar 'Gair benthyg' ayb

Sginti Gymreg, o gwbwl? Sdim synwyr n y rhanfwyaf oth olygs, hyd y gwela i. Doesna ddim sonam 'iaith roddol' ayb nunman arall. Dwed bedi dy dystiolaeth neu palla osgyndda. Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 08:26, 7 Chwefror 2021 (UTC)

Sorry to use English, but I'm not advanced enough in Welsh to respond. Still, even I could tell the article was... incomprehensible. Anyway, most languages use some equivalent of 'donor language'; I tried my best to render that sense. But you'll be hard pressed to find set translations for some of the concepts discussed in the article. Anything more specific? Torvalu4 (sgwrs) 08:49, 7 Chwefror 2021 (UTC)

Not at all. There are organig and standardised terms which should be use. The article as it stands has become machine-Anglo-translated-spam. It will either be deleted or returned to how it was before you edited her. Please refrain from editing the Welsh Wikipedia, as it is obvious you don't speak Welsh. Thanks for your interest. Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 09:34, 7 Chwefror 2021 (UTC)

Very funny. Look, I used Academi, Porth Termau Cenedlaethol Cymru, etc., so if there are standardised terms, I'd love to know where they are. The article as it stood before certainly didn't have them, and it's clear you don't have any idea what they are. After all, you added a "language cleanup" banner well before I came along. And as for not editing, we'll see. All I know is it's you and about 3 other people on here, and most of the articles I've seen are in pretty bad shape. What's everyone else's excuse? Torvalu4 (sgwrs) 10:08, 7 Chwefror 2021 (UTC)

How rude of you! Your edits, on the whole, are verging on vandalism. Sian EJ (sgwrs) 14:56, 9 Chwefror 2021 (UTC)

Ieithoedd Goidelig -> Ieithoedd Goidelaidd

Mae'r ffynonellau bron i gyd yn nodi 'Ieithoedd Goidelig'. Pam felly wyt ti'n mynnu defnyddio 'Ieithoedd Goidelaidd' (dim un ffynhonnell ddibynadwy)? Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 08:38, 9 Mawrth 2021 (UTC)

• GPC: d.g. Goedeleg ~ Goedelaidd ~ Goedel
• Academi: d.g. ‘Goidelic’ > Goedelaidd / Goedeleg; Torvalu4 (sgwrs) 01:48, 10 Mawrth 2021 (UTC)

Dydy'r dair enghraifft gyntaf gen ti ddim yn crybwyll 'Goedelaidd' o gwbwl; ond mae Geiriadur yr Academi. Ond gan mai 'Goedelig' sy'n cael ei ddefnyddio mewn llyfrau a phapurau academaidd pob tro, yna awgrymaf dy fod naill ai yn cadw at y sillafiad hwnnw, neu'n ychwanegu cyfeiriad at Eiriadur yr Academi os defnyddio'r 'Goedelaidd'. Diolch. Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 08:46, 10 Mawrth 2021 (UTC)

@Llywelyn2000:@Sian EJ: I think feelings are running high here because you are making quite sweeping changes to keystone articles without consulting the community or giving sufficient justification for your changes. I've taken a look at a number of your edits, and I can generally see your point of view, and can generally see the reason why you would want to make them. But there again, there are often good reasons for not making them, at least not in the blunt way that you have.

In all likelihook "Goidelaidd" is the word that everybody should have been using instead of "Goidelig", but usage is important too. "Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence", as they say. Before you made such a change it would have been a good idea to have provided a reference to a reputable published source in the field of linguistics that actually used such a typology.

Most people who are experts in their field believe that the terminology that non-experts (and other experts) use is often defective, but here at Wicipedia we need to deal with the world as it is, and not as it should be.

For example, I noticed that in the article Llyndy that you removed "crannog" from the definition. That may be "correct", because "crannog" is a type of "llyndy", but the trouble is that a "crannog" is likely to be the specific type of "llyndy" that people consulting this page are interested in. So to remove the word and the cross-reference to Crannog from the article was unhelpful in the extreme.

It seems to me that you have a good deal to contribute to Wicipedia, but you have put people's backs up in your confrontational style of editing; doubling-down with your comments above just makes matters worse. Your final comment in your message of 10:08 7 Chwefror was quite fantastically offensive. Wicipedia is a co-operative effort. Please don't belittle the efforts of others. --Craigysgafn (sgwrs) 10:55, 10 Mawrth 2021 (UTC)

"Don't belittle the efforts of others". Do me a favor and tell that to Ll.2000. I met offense with equal offense, and unless the "community" (I get the feeling we're really just talking about 3 or 4 people) changes its tune, I won't either. I mean, Ll.2000 just reverted my edits on Sgoteg - no explanaton given. That seems rather blunt, but somehow I doubt you're planning on telling him how he needs to be more co-operative.

As for more recent edits, I don't really see your point. I mean, you said it yourself, a crannog is a type of llyndy - not a synonym of llyndy - and furthermore has its own page. You added a cross-ref to that page. What's the problem? Why on earth would this call for consultation? How is this confrontational? It's as if the desired default state of Wicipedia is total stagnation, so that the slightest change sends shock waves through the "community". This brings us to Goidelig. I'm sorry, but if Goidelig isn't in 2 of the Welsh language's major dictionaries, there's obviously a problem. I was asked for sources, I gave some. Is that a confrontation? That seems like it was worked out rather bloodlessly... or is there more to this story that I don't know about? Or are you referring to other edits? Not clear.

Your attempt to be diplomatic is a breath of fresh air, but considering how little I've actually contributed to this encyclopedia and how disproportionately hysterical the "community" has become, I'm left to wonder whether I'm really the problem. In any event, if you - i.e. the "community" - don't belittle me, I won't belittle you. Torvalu4 (sgwrs) 14:32, 10 Mawrth 2021 (UTC)

Addendum: right after posting this, several more of my edits were reverted. I'm sorry, but this appears to be vindictive, pure and simple. It's obvious which one of us is the more malicious. Torvalu4 (sgwrs) 15:02, 10 Mawrth 2021 (UTC)

Totally agree with Craigysgafn. Most of your edits were good, some are way out, and simply wrong; citations are non-existent, as is your lack of discussing major changes. When you've been told not to edit, an explanation is not needed. Reverting bad edits = malicious? Interesting! Just had a look at this one, and there was no reference. I would have done the same. If you carry on like this you will be banned. Sian EJ (sgwrs) 15:24, 10 Mawrth 2021 (UTC)

Westffalia = Academi. Really, this is getting ridiculous. You do realize Welsh has words for placenames, right? Did it even occur to you to verify for yourself? Again, you're imposing a huge double standard on me. It seems like you just want me to cite everything - a single word - that I'm "Welshifying". Do you realize that that makes it seem like you don't know your own language? Usually citations are for quotations, figures, or dubious assertions. And you would have reverted something right in the middle of a conversation with someone? Sounds like you're dealing with me in bad faith. If most my edits are good by your own admission, and I'm not the one doing any of the reverting, then for what reason would I be banned? Torvalu4 (sgwrs) 15:35, 10 Mawrth 2021 (UTC)

Can't find Westffalia in the Academi Arlein. Link please. Sian EJ (sgwrs) 16:19, 10 Mawrth 2021 (UTC)

Academi: d.g. ‘Westphalia’ > Westffalia. Torvalu4 (sgwrs) 16:22, 10 Mawrth 2021 (UTC)

Consistency is important. If you type 'Westfalen' in the search window you will see that there are 70 examples - which you just left there without changing. More importantly, the article on Nordrhein-Westfalen still has that spelling: 'Westfalen'. What we do on cywiki is to discuss changes like this, fully, on the article's Talk page. So I reverted your edits because they would be totally inconsistent with the rest. No reference to the Academi dictionary was made, and no discussion held. Stop wasting our time. Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 18:30, 10 Mawrth 2021 (UTC)

Your time is only wasted because you keep challenging me on valid edits. So, knowing that it's right, I'm curious: would you oppose this being systematically replaced with Westffalia if a ref were added and a discussion had, and if so, why? Torvalu4 (sgwrs) 18:42, 10 Mawrth 2021 (UTC)

You still don't understand what you've done wrong and you haven't understood our policies, our guidelines, the ethos and the spirit of cywiki. Read the info given to you by our editors: 'inconsistency', 'discuss', then 'add citations' and change all usage of the word. I repeat: don't edit Welsh Wikipedia until you've understood our ways. Once that has been proved, you will be more than welcome. Llywelyn2000 (sgwrs) 08:54, 11 Mawrth 2021 (UTC)